Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:16:28 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Gary Harding
Subject: Starter motors
Has anyone tried using a pre-engaged type of starter motor on an Imp? I have used a Bosch motor from a late 4 cylinder petrol Land Rover but this motor required a lot of modification before it could be used. The Bosch motor is an excellent machine but not a bolt-on conversion. I have also tried a Lucas motor from a late A Series Austin Metro. This motor fitted straight on but sounds like a washing machine full of bolts when it is operated. I've been told that the Bosch starter motor from an Audi 80 or 100 should be a straight bolt on job. Any thoughts?
Gary
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 08:08:59 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Gary Henderson
Subject: Re: Starter motors
Hi Gary
The 1974 UK-built Avenger Estate which has been around our family since new has its original pre-engaged starter motor, which is a Jap one (!) - Mitsubishi I think. But really, what's the problem with the original Lucas modified-Bendix drive anyway? (With 'real' Bendix, if the big spring breaks you've lost all, but the Lucas version didn't depend on the spring as the drive coupling.)
Try for a Lucas motor with all copper windings (= more torque for less amps) & die-cast commutator-end cover - the bashed-tin version doesn't conduct heat away from the bushing so they wear rapidly.
By the way, there is an advantage to the the 2-stage geared types - the final pinion can be larger so wear on pinion & ring-gear is reduced because the load is shared over more teeth.
A firm near here purports to 'restore' ring-gears - I think they shrink the flywheel with liquid nitrogen & shift the ring-gear around to a new spot.
Cheers
the other different GaryH
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:06:31 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Darcy Maddock
Subject: Re: Starter motors
Hi Gary, I was told some time ago that Ford Fiesta (English not Jap) starter motors will fit. Unfortuneately we did not get them in Australia. Graham Cashmore should be able to help. Darcy
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:00:28 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Simon Trickett
Subject: RE: Starter motors
Hello,
An Austin Maxi pre engaged starter motor will fit without any mods; that is of cause if you can live with maxi parts in your Imp !!
Simon Trickett
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:49:52 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Russell Maddock
Subject: Re: Starter motors
Say, dad, didn't Graham tell us to use a Marina one? Or was that the thing we bought and couldn't make fit?
Russ Maddock
in Southport, England
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:15:14 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Nickcleak
Subject: Re: Starter motors
> Any thoughts?
Yes , a few !
I have been using a pre engaged starter on my Imp since 1979 !
It is a lucas unit from an early Maxi (1500 ? ) the mounting holes need filing out towards the edge but the central boss is the same size so centres the motor perfectly ... It works well..
One point you all seem to have forgotton .. the gear meshes from the other side of the flywheel so the starter ring gear should be reversed so that the beveled edge is towards the rear of the car . In 1979 i failed to do this and the starter ring gear was knocked off !
Another 'Nick tip' !
Yes the dreadful 'gear' noise from the new type starters is due to them being low weight motors of different construction .. they are really just overgrown wiper motors with permanant magnets .. they spin at hight speed but have little torque so have to be geared down with an epicyclic gear train ... hence the dreadful noise apparant on most new cars when starting ...
The standard IMP starter is fine as long as the engine always fires up first time ! and fairly light compared to the pre-engaged type ...
Does the Metric BOSCH Starter pinion gear mesh with the IMPERIAL teeth on the flywheel correctly ?????
Nick ....
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:51:42 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Darcy Maddock
Subject: Re: Starter motors
Yes son, but it would have mean't drilling holes in the bellhousing (not as strong) instead of drilling holes in the 930cc motor. Dad
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:38:14 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Gary Harding
Subject: RE: Starter motors
Nick,
The one I have used from the late 4 cylinder Land Rover meshes fine as the Bosch motor replaced the original Lucas motor that was similar to the Imp. The Bosch motor used plastic gears to reduce the crank speed, that's probably why the motor has such a good quality sound to it.
Is it really necessary to modify the ring gear? A pre-engaged motor should not be able to push the ring gear off the flywheel. Those things are sweated onto the flywheel. The teeth of the starter motor are bevelled and I have never had an incorrect engagement. All I'm looking for is a non-Lucas motor that simply bolts on.
Gary