From: Impmann@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 06:48:24 EST
Subject: [imps] Re: Rover K/ Cooling system
Hi Gary,
In addition to what you've said about the cooling system, there is also one further point about the water pump.
There are problems with reconditioning the pump. If it has been recon'd before, the alloy can get a bit thin around the bearing housings, meaning that the bearings can become free in the mountings, allowing the outer race to spin with the inner. This rips the pump to bits allowing coolant to leak from around the bearing. I've seen this on a large number of the recon pumps floating about in the UK, and is a recognised problem.
I'm told that the problems can be prevented if the pump is sympathetically stripped in the first place, it all depends upon how the bearings are removed.
The other thing to bear in mind is that some of the pump castings I have seen recently are a bit thin, due to years of water sloshing around inside them, and this can lead to minute flexing within the pump body again leading to premature failure.
New-old-stock pumps come up every so often here, but should be treated with caution. It all depends upon how long they have been stored and where. The bearing seals can harden up with age, meaning that they fail prematurely.
Also, I have seen a 'brand new' pump with seized bearings, purely from being stored in a damp environment (an outside garage) for many years.
With brand new pumps at the moment being unavailable in the UK (are they the same in N.Z & Australia?), this is a problem. Some recon pumps seem fine, some are total crap, it really is a lottery....so look after the pump you've got - plenty of anti-freeze and don't overtighten your fan belt.....
It would be nice if Q.H could make another batch....eutopia they call that, don't they? :-)
Cheers,
Tim
From: Gary and Carol Henderson
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:50:23 +-1300
Subject: [imps] Re: Rover K/ Cooling system/ Reliability
Hi Tim
1) Thanks for fixing the heading - I forgot!
2) Re the Q-H pumps: The castings have the external appearance of the 'good' one from about 1970, but the inside of the features which should house nice big water-grooves has simply been filed right in! Also, where there was a full-circle abutment in the original Mk.1 pump housing, Q-H only had an internal circlip which is even less hindrance to H2O getting to the affected bearing. My one of these turkeys (bought new from Todd/Mitsi in 1989) lasted 18 months. I've kept the wreckage, because obviously the castings are young and getting the water-grooves bored should be possible. I wouldn't bother reassembling this one without that bit of surgery.
The ancient original pump, with added vent-holes alongside the weep-holes, has been back in service ever since. (But I'm aware of how long that is, so will build a spare shortly!)
I guess that new pumps of any flavour are no longer to be had.
Cheers
GaryH
From: Impmann@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:39:56 EST
Subject: [imps] Re: Rover K/ Cooling system/Reliability
Hi Gary,
Very interesting about the internal differences between the pumps, which I was not aware of. I have a QH pump on the Husky which appears to be giving good service at the mo (and it was secondhand when fitted!!!!).
As far as I am aware, QH are about the only manufacturer to still have the tooling needed to restart manufacture. Therefore, I would be interested if anyone else has had bad experience of the QH pump.
Cheers,
Tim
From: Gary and Carol Henderson
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:03:19 +-1300
Subject: [imps] Re: Reliability - Q-H waterpumps
Hi Tim
The reason for the regression is simple - the 1970-ish pump would have needed a complex expanding core in the die, or else detailed boring of the water-grooves. The late pump has a simple through-bore all the way, with (if I remember correctly) only a single shallow groove for an internal circlip as abutment. Unlike the Mk1 pump, it has the modern hydrostatic-balanced seals. The problem is that the very first weepage for any reason (such as during bedding in) will find its way straight to the bearings...
The best treatment for a new one of this type would be to dismantle it before ever using it, get the water-grooves bored in the housings and reassemble using new bearings just in case the dismantling harmed the originals. (The bearings are cheap and easy to get - I think the same ones as commonly found in Lucas alternators - cost in NZ about $10 each - about 3 quid to you?). Run it without the pressure-cap tightened for a few hundred miles if you can, to bed the seals properly.
The serious high-revving users should probably fit a bigger pulley, to prevent cavitation and extend bearing life.
Cheers
GaryH
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:52:20 -0100
From: rienk steenhuis
Subject: [imps] Re: Reliability - Q-H waterpumps
hi all
For those who want a number for the bearings , it's 6202 or 6202EE which have sealing rings built in either side of the ball-race. And yes Gary you're right about them being the same as for the lucas alternators.
Rienk
From: Nickcleak@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:09:50 EST
Subject: [imps] Re: Rover K/ Cooling system/Reliability
In a message dated 30/12/98 22:40:09 GMT, you write:
> Very interesting about the internal differences between the pumps, which I was
> not aware of. I have a QH pump on the Husky which appears to be giving good
> service at the mo (and it was secondhand when fitted!!!!).
>
> As far as I am aware, QH are about the only manufacturer to still have the
> tooling needed to restart manufacture. Therefore, I would be interested if
> anyone else has had bad experience of the QH pump.
I have one. I can't remember when i fitted it - some time in the 70's. It's had one set of bearings though ....
There are two sizes of waterpump pulley which may be of interest. I have the large one to reduce the speed of the pump a little ..
Nick ....
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:58:09 -0500
From: Gary Harding
Subject: [imps] Waterpumps - bearings
It's the same bearing as used in the dynamo too.