Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:53:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Bert Clewits
Subject: generator conversion
Hi Impers,
I'm doing a dynamo to alternator conversion on my Stiletto but I'm not sure how I have to connect the wires up.
Is it:
the brown/green lead to the brown/yellow (small one) and the thick brown one to the two thick brown/yellow ones for a lucas generator ?
Thanks
--
Bert Clewits
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:18:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Henderson
Subject: Re: generator conversion
Hi Bert
Can't tell you the colours from here (at work), but the thick one is still definitely the thick one!
A good source of info on just about every variation of UK vehicle electrics in the late sixties thru the seventies is the Hunter manual - it has over 250 pages of electrics alone!
There are several configurations of the rectifier and control hybrid for the 15/16ACR series, including positive to earth for BMC! Most can be adapted with a little internal wire-juggling. (The positive-earth units used a controller with all leads floating from case so can easily be used.)
Alternators for more expensive cars tend to have such luxuries as an external link, to prevent generating harmful voltages if the connector is removed.
By the way, it is feasible to make a 'good' rectifier stack out of a couple of dead ones - a solder-sucker and careful dismantling required! (Don't let the through-bolt turn.)
Good luck
GaryH
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:14:36 +0100 (CET)
From: Nickcleak
Subject: Re: generator conversion
The old control box is best removed ... join all the thick brown wires and the thick brown/yellow that go to it together .....
The thin brown yellow and the thin brown/green are joined at the control box end ...
Best to run a new cable from the alternator + to the battery cable at the starter solenoid to take the new increased current !
choose an alternator with a small pulley to give you plenty of charge at idle !
nick ...
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:19:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Henderson
Subject: Re: generator conversion
Reply-To: imps@coollist.com
Hi Nick, Bert & Co.
Caution re the small pulley - Imps operate at higher revs on average than the donor car of your alternator. Can't look up the info here at work, but my guess is 9000 rpm is sensible top limit for a Lucas alternator.
Cheers
GaryH
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:55:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Gary Harding
Subject: RE: generator conversion
Gary, The upper speed limit on the Lucas alternator is around 16,000 RPM. There will be no problem using the conventional small pulley and up to 8,000 crankshaft RPM.
Gary
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:53:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Darcy Maddock
Subject: Re: generator conversion
Hi Bert, Nick is right about the wiring but I would suggest having the pulley off your generator put on your alternator. Otherwise you will kill the alternator with the revs of an Imp. Here in Australia in the sixties locally assembled Imps came off the line with Hillman Minx generators fitted to save money. The gennies lasted a very short time, burnt out by the high revs of the Imp against the top of about 5000revs of a Minx. Regards Darcy
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:22:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Bert Clewits
Subject: Re: generator conversion
Hi Gary,Impers,
Thanks for the mail on the generator conversion. I've got the thing working, it was indeed thin wires to thin wires thick to thick wires.
First I thought the warning light would stay on and it did at first ! but after letting the engine run for a while the voltage on the thin wire on the generator went up and it was charging nicely at 13.5 Volts !
(Must have been due to brushes not run in or so)
Anyway looking at the haynes manual you can see a regulator still needed as you say Gary.
And one other thing yes I did manage to forget to tighten the centre bolt of the rectifiers in the generator years ago, and yes it cought fire !
Thanks anyway !
Bert
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:19:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Gary Harding
Subject: RE: generator conversion
Bert,
The way I do it is to connect the brown/green to the brown/yellow.
I then connect the output of the alternator to the brown wire that runs to the front of the car then also connect the alternator output to the battery. All the wiring is then taped up as in the original harness. The end result is that all the old wiring to the regulator box is removed from the car. This gives a very neat and reliable solution.
Gary
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:23:11 +0100 (MET)
From: Gary and Carol Henderson
Subject: RE: generator conversion
Hi Bert
There might be another explanation...
For 15/16/18ACR alternators, the warning-light circuit provides a priming current to the fields. Without this current, the unit has to run at high enough revs for residual magnetism to generate enough to start some field current; one it has done this the alternator will then work happily including at low revs. If left out of use for a few days, it will lose magnetism and you have to start over again.... Avengers had those dodgy wedge-fit bulbs with holders jammed into the 'printed circuit' panel. This was a common cause of intermittent charging.
I have a d.c. generator story from a few years back: Terrible howling from engine-bay of CT475 not long after starting off. (Check rear end for trapped cat!) This happened several days on & off. Thought it was the beginnings of water-pump troubles. Then one night lost charging completely - found the 8 mm QC connector had got tired (after only 25 years!). Clamped it tighter with pliers; replaced it next day. No more yowling! I think the reason is that the arcing gave a negative resistance component, and the field-coils were acting as the resonant circuit to form a kind of audio oscillator.
Cheers
GaryH
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:17:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Nickcleak
Subject: Re: generator conversion
> The upper speed limit on the Lucas alternator is around 16,000 RPM. There
> will be no problem using the conventional small pulley and up to 8,000
> crankshaft RPM.
You know those new alternators with the fan built inside as on the modern cars .. they are ok to 19000 rpm ..so gear them to X 3 !!
nick ...
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:10:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Nickcleak
Subject: Re: generator conversion
> Caution re the small pulley - Imps operate at higher revs on average than
> the donor car of your alternator. Can't look up the info here at work, but
> my guess is 9000 rpm is sensible top limit for a Lucas alternator.
i think it is about 12000 rpm for the lucas ,
But if you are going to the trouble of fitting an Alternator then at least fit a decent one !!
I used a Bosch for 15 years , the max rpm for that was 16000 rpm . i am currently using a Ducellier which has a max speed of 17000 rpm . so with a small pulley ( X 2 ratio) you will be safe to 8500 rpm ..
anyway do many people drive their Imps regularly and consistantly over 5000 - 6000 rpm these days ??
If you fit a big pulley then you loose one of the main advantages of the alternator , ie plenty of current at low engine rpm ...
Nick ...!
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 03:03:21 +0100 (MET) To: imps@coollist.com From: ABryson@sperry-sun.com Subject: Re[2]: generator conversion Reply-To: imps@coollist.com
What model Bosch alternator do you use and is it a direct replacement or are different brackets required.
I am not impressed by LUCAS alternators but have to run them in my racing/rally class. Even with the big pulley they never last more than a few months.
Regards,
Andy in Indonesia
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:17:37 +0100 (MET)
From: Darcy Maddock
Subject: Re: generator conversion
Dear Andy, I use a Bosche alternator (65 amp) but the ears were wrong so I constructed a cradle out of 1"x quarter inch strap steel. A different fan belt is needed. It works well and has given me no trouble. Darcy
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:21:24 +0100 (MET)
From: Gary Harding
Subject: RE: Re[2]: generator conversion
Andy,
It's unfortunate but true. The Lucas quality is not that good. In the US Lucas have a very poor reputation with one example being the reference to the Lucas lighting system. 'There are three modes available:
Off, flicker and dim'. You will also need to watch out for reconditioned Lucas components as these demonstrate a huge variance in quality, some are very good while others are not worth fitting.
Gary
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:01:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary and Carol Henderson
Subject: RE: Re[2]: generator conversion
Hi
Time to put in a word for Joe Lucas, known to his detractors as the Prince of Darkness...
The alternators: The rectifier stacks were a product of accountant-led engineering, but the rest lasts pretty well. Sure, you can make a smaller lighter one now that can be spun faster, but of course it HAS to spin faster if it has less iron & copper. And remember that the 16ACR with its thick-film control box was in production in the early 1970s - certainly for the 1972 model year. The brushes usually last about 150,000 km; the bearings a bit longer unless many years have passed.
The d.c. generators: These burn out if the rear bushing is never lubricated - it gets sloppy and allows the armature to rub on the pole-shoes. Add a wet night with headlights & wipers etc and it fries. The front bearing dies of old age of the bearing seals. (CT475 suffered this a couple of years ago.) The 3-coil controller works for years without fiddling, and seems to have allowed long battery life.
The state of the headlights is usually determined by the quality of the earth return to body (or rather, by if there is still any metal where the return is made!).
Lucas taillight lenses stay red for at least 33 years - not the case with some others.
The Lucas distributors don't get baggy spindle bearings. (Compare Ford ones.) If you really want to see genuinely awful electrics, look at the Magneti Marelli junk on a Fiat!
The older barrel-commutator starters with copper stator windings were better than the later "value-engineered" face-plate types. The latter took more current for less output; also the pressed-steel end-plate didn't remove heat from the commutator-end bush, so it doesn't last as long. It'll still see an engine out though...
The Lucas 9H horn eats anything found on a Jap car.
The wiper motors only give up when subjected to trying to drive seized mechanisms. (NZ gets enough rain for us to know this one!) On a car with 200000km up, I checked the brushes of the 15W and they were fully bedded in, but no way would you think of changing them. Jap ones are smaller, lighter and chop out.
And Papa Joe was making and using silicon power transistors when others were only dreaming about them.
No Prince of Darkness - just King of the Road!
Cheers
GaryH
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:32:52 +0100 (MET)
From: Bert Clewits
Subject: Re: generator conversion
Hi Impers,
Lucas:
> No Prince of Darkness - just King of the Road!
Yes I agree with you, Lucas isn't bad at all.
But the bl...y control boxes you buy now (replacement and Lucas ones) don't last long and are hardly adjustable.
And that counts for a lot of other parts, like my release bearings new dynamo brushes which fall apart, new king pins which have play, steering rack gaitors which break, new valve guides with too much play, waterpump pulleys which don't fit properly on the shaft.
Lets make a black list of those items so we save each other a lot of work: If anyone has an item ADD it !
Don't use:
----------
SUK rotoflexes
Do use:
-------
Reinz headgaskets