Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:07:23 +0100
From: Henk Hol
Subject: [imps] Imp feature on BBC
Hi all,
Does anybody know when the Imp feature will come on BBC television ?
Cheers,
Henk
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:51:57 +0000
From: Roger W.Swift
Subject: [imps] Re: Imp feature on BBC
The Cars the Star -- BBC2 22 November Time not known
Roger
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:32:00 +0000
From: Graham Begley
Subject: [imps] Re: Imp feature on BBC
10.10 pm,
Graham
From: D.K. Pitts
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:27:32 GMT
Subject: [imps] Biography
Hello all!
While watching a program called 'Biography', which was about Mick Jagger, a clip was shown in which he and Keith Richards were wheeled away from their sentencing for possession in the 60's (?)... in a Commer van!
Darryl
From: Graham Miller
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:52:05 -0000
Subject: [imps] The Car's the Star
I saw this programme last night (for non-UK readers it's a 20 minute bio of the Imp), thought it spent too much time criticising the MK1's but maybe they felt they had to explain why such a well engineered car failed so spectacularly. However, having watched it I have two questions...
Did they really raise the front suspension for the Construction and Use regs on the indicators and side lights, and how easy is it to restore to design spec (Obviously moving the lights ;-)?
Did the GPO really turn down Husky van's as too fast?
Graham
From: Martin Bristow
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:31:52 -0000
Subject: [imps] Rally
I didn't think 'The car's the star' was too bad. It wasn't very complimentary either, but it wasn't as bad as I was worried it might have been.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:57:08 +0000
From: Coral Gillespie
Subject: [imps] Imps on TV
Can anybody help me please. I am trying to trace the history of a Hillman Super Imp. It was used extensively in the 60s British TV series 'Man in a Suitcase'.
All I know is that it was an ex-Rootes press/demonstration Rally Imp with the 65 bhp 998 cc engine conversion and power brakes. It was made in September 1965, was orchid green in colour and had twin spotlights. The registration was FHP 198C. It was used at Pinewood Studios for quite a time between 1966/1967. It was road tested for Cars Illustrated in 1967, and in November 1968, Neil Harrison, who owned the car at that time, wrote an article for Autocar about the vehicle's second 12,000 miles. I know that this isn't much information to go on, but I thought if anybody might know anything about this car, then you guys would. Any information, however trivial would be most welcome. Incidentally, three other similar cars were also used in the series. A grey Imp - 109 GHX, a red Imp - FPX 672C, and a grey Chamois - JML 272B. Thanks. Hope to hear from some of you soon.
Coral
From: Nickcleak@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:44:07 EST
Subject: [imps] Re: The Car's the Star
> Did they really raise the front suspension for the Construction and Use
> regs on the indicators and side lights, and how easy is it to restore to
> design spec (Obviously moving the lights ;-)?
Yes they did !
There are two types of early front panel and front wings , the position of the front side light cut-outs are slightly different by about ½ inch ...
Nick ..
From: Nickcleak@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:44:03 EST
Subject: [imps] The Cars The Star .....
> Yes, I'm getting a lot of stick at work from the rally fans. What with
> that and the cars the star programme on the telly last night I'm keeping a
> low profile today....
Remember i said last week on here :"With Quentin Wilson .... Dare we watch ?? !!"
It was well presented and put together , but what was the object of the program ?
To disuede people from becoming involved with Imps ? It certainly isn't going to attract any people who don't already know Imps.....
I think the GOOD/BAD content should have been the other way around , IE . Good 75% Bad 25% .. and Wilson should have been driving Ernie Larsons old Imp i think ! Then maybe he would have said something like :"In fact , the complete experience of driving LWH 153 F was far better than expected , particularly in ride , handling , and engine flexibility , This is the strongest endorsement i can give to this delicacy's excellence......"Which was printed a few years ago when a car magazine tested the car ..
Nick ...
From: franka@bart.nl
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:55:51 -0100
Subject: [imps] Re: The Cars The Star .....
>It certainly isn't going to attract any people who don't already know Imps.....
Have a look at the site's statistics though ;-)
http://viewstat.nedstat.nl/cgi-bin/viewstat?name=imps
Busiest day up til now: 23 November 1998 with 44 pageviews
From: TMo5018257@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:07:17 EST
Subject: [imps] Re: The Cars The Star .....
Nick,
I totally agree.... where was the Sunbeam Imp Sport? His comment about the Stiletto being 'camp' with the Cooper being 'butch' was positively offensive.
I mean has he endured driving a Cooper S for any longer than 10 miles - back ache a-go-go.
Too much waffle about the bad bits of the Imp's story, ok so it's part of it but what about the successes? The Rally success was pooh-poohed as being only a one off on the Tulip rally - what about Colin Malkin????? Rosemary Smith had been edited down, with the majority of her comment being about a lack of power on hills (possibly just about the early Rally cars with their 875cc lumps). Where were the Rallycrossers........
And the crowning insult to a high roof driver like me - "and there was a Husky estate, but that looked just like a hearse"....arrrggghhh. The ghost of Tony Mason strikes again (I know he's not dead, but after last time ........).
I suppose we couldn't trust the Journalistic wallies of Top Gear to present a non-biased, enthusiastic report of perhaps the most innovative car of the sixties - I mean has anyone seen that Jingo-istic, racist load of twaddle that is 'Clarkson', the man deserves shooting.
Oh well, there has been one good thing that's come out of the program. Since it has been broadcast, my neighbours who had been shunning me due to my collection of crusty old heaps, are now showing an interest. They all seem to have seen the program and now say things like "I never knew they were so interesting/important". Even the dustman this morning asked me where he could get one. So perhaps there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Rant over.
Cheers,
Tim
PS: For our friends who don't live in the UK, I apologise as this must not make a lot of sense!! And in my opinion at least, you didn't miss much.
From: Nickcleak@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:23:05 EST
Subject: [imps] Re: The Cars The Star .....
> Have a look at the site's statistics though ;-)
> Busiest day up til now: 23 November 1998 with 44 pageviews
well , lets hope it re-kindled someones old happy memories ..
Nick
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:18:48 +0000
From: Graham Begley
Subject: [imps] Re: The Cars The Star .....
> but what was the object of the program ?
To entertain people who have a passing interest in the extinct British motor industry and advance Quentin Wilson's career as a popular presenter.
> To disuede people from becoming involved with Imps ? It certainly isn't going
> to attract any people who don't already know Imps.....
I don't think so. As a potential, rather than actual, Imp owner I was relieved that it wasn't the usual sycophantic eulogy seen through rose-coloured spectacles.
At the relevant time I was working at Lotus and the disdain with which we regarded mainstream 'sports-cars' of the day makes an interesting contrast with the current reverence for bits-from-the-spares-bin concepts like MG, Austin-Healey and Triumph being currently rescued from being re-cycled as baked bin cans.
Not that what we were turning out at Lotus in those days were renowned for their reliability and longevity. When the customer managed to drive his new car off the premises, we stopped holding our breath.
As for the trick with the three transporters, when we completed the first Lotus-Cortinas we couldn't get them off the factory floor, the exit turning was too tight. It took a certain racing driver of revered memory to do a hand-brake turn to get them out in front of the visiting Ford brass! The references to inadequate development, incompetent test-driving and a recalcitrant workforce had an authentic period ring to it.
This list is full of ingenious suggestions about how to improve, not just replace, parts of the Imp. For example, count up the number of references to cooling in this list.
Stop being so sensitive, like the Lotus of the day, the Imp was, and is, a wonderful and mainly unique concept that only became viable in the hands of intelligent and able owners. This list bears that assertion out and maitains the tradition.
As someone who propelled a modified MiniVan at equal velocity to the Cooper S on National rallies of 300 miles in the early Sixties, the references to discomfort and concern with the description of 'camp' are disquieting. Was there a design point to the Stilleto et al? No reduction in frontal area or weight are evident, or was it a tip of the hat to the theory of aerodynamics, like the Citroen GS. I presumed that the current attraction of the Stilleto was its rarity value because fewer had been sold.
As you might have gathered by now, I thought the programme was the normal balance of lightweight information and amusement that typifies 'The Car is the Star'.
Rosemary Smith is still delicious and so is her sense of humour. Her wry remarks conveyed more about how handling out-performed sheer power than another thirty minutes would have achieved. It entertained me and reinforced my desire to rise to the challenge of being an Imp owner. By the way, if you know anyone, extremely wealthy, that would like to relieve me of one of my classic Mercedes, let me know and I will make progress towards full conversion.
As for Jeremy What's-his-name, I'll never forgive him. I switched on his first programme, fell asleep and missed half of the following 'The Car is the Star' on the Shelby Cobra!
Now let me tell you about my first drive in a Cobra ... Perhaps not, I'm sure you have had enough by now :-)
Good Luck,
Graham
From: TMo5018257@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:37:00 EST
Subject: [imps] Re: The Cars The Star .....
Hi Graham,
I agree that TV should be just about entertainment, but when someone's own views on something get represented as fact then I start to get a bit upset.....
Quentin's comments about the Stiletto were unneccessary. The Stiletto was a good seller at first, and the majority of people who like them do so because they are incredibly good looking cars. The idea of the design was mainly to ape the flash GT coupes of the sixties, with perhaps a tip of the hat toward aerodynamics. We all know that they were not any more slippery than the saloon, and not so practical. In the classic car press they have compared Coopers to Sports and Stilettos and each time, the Imp wins overall. I too have owned two Cooper S (one 1275 and one 1071) and they good fun until the rain comes, but a Stiletto is a far more grown up car. As far as rarity goes, yep they are not as common as muck, but I believe from memory that their survival rate is proportionately higher than the standard Imp and that has to be for another reason other than rarity.
He did not mention about the practicality of the Imp or the Husky. He did not mention anything about how cheap they are to own now. No reference was made to the fact that the car is supported by a very enthusiastic following (which they did with the Capri - they even showed footage of their national day).
And to describe the looks of the Husky so unkindly got my goat. If he really wanted to make a joke about the styling how about "the Husky would have made a good hearse, as it is one of the few post war cars that you can drive wearing a top hat." The Escort Mk1 estate looks like a hearse too, but you don't hear these journalistic hacks slagging them off.
I don't think I'm being over sensitive (I'm not that kinda guy), and I certainly haven't had a sense of humour bypass. However, I watched that program as a non-enthusiast would, and came away thinking "why the hell would anyone want to own one of those", and that defeats everything that has been done to promote the positive image of the Imp.
It's interesting what you said about Lotus, as my dad's Elan went back five times before he was happy - and then it only worked when it wanted to - hmm that sounds familiar:-) Fabulous fun though......
Cheers,
Tim
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:36:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Waites
Subject: [imps] Re: The Cars The Star .....
Hi all,
I think that I've developed a bit of a thick skin to this sort of thing these days, I've kinda developed an inverted snobbery to it all. The more they critise the car the more I like it. Being the underdog does have its advantages. At work they seemed more upset about the programme than me, I was surprised by the amount of folk who came up to me and said how bad and unbalanced they thought the programme was, (addmittedly this was from those with a bit of engineering nouse).
I think that Quentin Wilson's idea for the programme wasn't really the imp. It was a real dig at the motor industry of the day. We saw very little of the car and just him droneing on about the factory and politics behind it etc....
My annoyance is that he did this: The whole idea behind this series was that the 'car' was supposed to be the star. Using the Show they did on the Capri that Tim Morgan mentions for example, I expected that to be a hatchet job, the Capri's reputation and all, but it came out quite well with a lot of information given as to its history etc.... (Pity they didn't mention what an excellent club we've got, the Capri club is not a patch on the imp-club).
I was also miffed about the fact that we saw so little of the cars, just arty farty images. Only the nose of a white Stiletto, but acres of Anita Harris's legs for example. (Well maybe thats a not a bad camera angle :-) but you know what I mean).
I cannot remember his name, but the Rover chap was seen outside his garage with his rather smart Rover. All we saw of his imp was the roof-line!!!!
And finally the engine was not explored ar all, Rosemary Smith given the briefest of mentions, the cruelest cut for me was that the Bevan imp was just given as a throw away remark.... If a modern car was to win the BTCC three years out of four then it would be headline stuff not just a passing mention...
Never mind, thats my ten pence worth. I'm just glad that I'm part of the elite crowd that secretly knows just what a super little car it is.
Paul.
P.s. I've just watched my video of the programme again, and the rally report that followed. Those concrete blocks really did make a mess of Makinens car: Very dangerous, (why concrete), the organisers really did drop a B*****k there. Thankfully it all turned out all right in the end.
I've nothing against Sainz, but I did't want him to win the championship on the back of the Rally organisers mistakes.
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:36:41 +0000
From: Graham Begley
Subject: [imps] Re: The Cars The Star .....
> I don't think I'm being over sensitive (I'm not that kinda guy), and I
> certainly haven't had a sense of humour bypass.
I totally agree and believe your reply proves that.
>However, I watched that program as a non-enthusiast would, and came
> away thinking "why the hell would anyone want to own one
>of those", and that defeats everything that has been done
>to promote the positive image of the Imp.
It would have made all the difference if Quentin had said something like, "You should check out the Imp Club and see how the members have made the Imp fufill its potential in a way that Rootes and Chrysler never achieved."
>It's interesting what you said about Lotus, as my dad's Elan
>went back five times before he was happy - and then it only
>worked when it wanted to
That wasn't part of our notorious recall programme, where cars were enticed back with promises of newly developed improved performance so that parts could be 'borrowed' to complete production cars until the next delivery of components could be negotiated, was it? By the way, the Escort Mk1 estate was not elegant enough to be mistaken for a hearse, whereas the Husky ...
Whilst I sympathise and agree with most of what has been said, I can't help feeling more enthused than ever. But I guess from your reactions there would be no mileage in proposing making a CD of the programme.
All the best,
Graham
From: TMo5018257@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:24:18 EST
Subject: [imps] Re: The Cars The Star .....
Hello all,
I am in agreement with all of you that have mentioned the idea of the Imp being the underdog. And yes, I am a lover of underdogs (I only recently got rid of the last of my Betamax video recorders) and there is a sort of inverted snobbery about owning an Imp. So maybe its cool to be part of the downfall of the British Motor Industry:-)
It certainly has raised the profile of the car. I have had four people come up to me in town wanting to talk about the hearse, sorry Husky. One child pointed at the car sat at traffic lights, with parent nodding wisely or perhaps they were discussing my sanity...... wouldn't be the first time.
Oh and my opinion of Boyzone has raised immeasurably - for those who didn't see the show, a member of the band owns a rather splendid looking 70s Imp Sport (in very Lime Green). I thought the only celebs owning an Imp these days were Chris Evans and Jarvis Cocker from Pulp (although he's recently cubed his one in the name of art - allegedly). What about Norman Wisdom's Stiletto WWK 333K? or Noel Edmunds' souped-up Californian?
Oh and apparently, Quentin Wilson used to own a Stiletto.......
Anyone know when the Channel 4 thing is on? Apparently it's called "More Classic Cars" and will be featuring the Imp.
All the best,
Tim